Ep 113: GCAP - 6th Generation Aircraft http://insideair.libsyn.com/ep-113-gcap-6th-generation-aircraft
↑英空軍や業界関係者による
GCAPに関するポッドキャスト
興味深い内容もあるので、英語で文字起こし
※Googleドキュメントの機能を使用
※赤文字や改行は翻訳記事の位置と対応
文字起こしの都合上、GCAPが
Jcob、ICap、Cap 等に変換されてるので注意
あと、カンマや綴りもガバってるのも注意
・・・・・
You're
listening to Inside Air, behind the worldview of the Royal Air Force. It's
people, technology and operations. Hi, I'm Flight Lifting and Chris Solly, and
welcome to the latest RAF Inside Air podcast. In this episode, we're talking
about the next generation of aircraft to enter into service with the Royal Air
Force. This is a bold colour comparison to make, but you know.JFK gave the
Apollo programme 10 years to get to the moon. The complexity of the technology
that we're bringing together and the product we're going to build, it is akin
to that level of complexity this aircraft is going to approach replacing Typhoon
in in a different way.So we're talking about the threat environment means that
ranges become a really big thing for all of us. And you see that that's
recognised everywhere. This is no surprise. So you look
at the press around the American version of six Jens, so the next generation
air dominance, you look at what we see in there.In all those cases, you can see
range is becoming a factor. We're building an aircraft that is going to have an
awful lot of range. But at the top of our list is the payload. As usual,
will also reheat a few stories which could have slipped under your radar and
would be finding out who's under the hat this week with a S1. Ben Russell,
what's your proudest moment?I'm really lucky. I've had a fair few, but I think
whilst I didn't recognise it at the time, I did a tour in Afghanistan where I
acted as the casualty and compassionate stance. Theo But the Task Force Helmand
out there and the work that I did there and helped basically when people were
in the worst.This is probably my proudest moment. That makes sense. Tempest, G
Cap and F Cass wants to know what it all means for the 6th generation of
aircraft planned for service with the RAF. We'll be hearing from Leonardo,
Rolls Royce and the RAF itself as Squadron Leader Peter Lisney gets an inside
air.Update Welcome to Inside Air is very good to have you here, gentlemen.
We're going to be talking about Tempest or F Cass, Orji, Cap or Team Tempest, I
don't really know. So that's going to be the first question. But before we get
onto that, I'll be very grateful if you could introduce yourselves.And we'll
start with you, Sir.Hi, I'm good Captain Bill. I lead the requirement and
concepting team for the UK Mo D as part of the F cast programme and with my
trilateral G cap partners in Italy, in Japan.Hi Peter, Dave Morris, I'm Head of
Campaigns for Future Combat Air for Leonardo UK. The campaigns role makes it
means that ensures that we're engaged with the customer at all times and that
we're getting the message out there to the other stakeholders of why this is
such an important programme.Hello Peter, Marked Ivy from Rolls Royce down in
Bristol. I, I am the Business Development Director for the future programmes
team down in Bristol. So we are looking after F gas energy gap and we'll talk
about that I'm sure. But my role is principally to ensure we keep programme
sold so much like Dave.Working with stakeholders we have in UK government,
interacting with our partners in Italy and Japan and ensuring that we keep an
eye on the commercial aspects of of how we interact with the programme as
well.Great. Thank you. So who's going to answer the question?What is Tempest?
What is G Cap? What is F Cass? Well, what a nice start and then we'll see if my
industry colleagues agree with me. In part, it gives you an indication of how
the programme began its birthplace in this kind of route today. So there's an
awful lot in the names. Names tell you the story of how how we.So I'll tell you
where we are now and then industry can fill in how we got there 'cause those, I
think these guys were there for the journey.
So
F cast the future combat air system that is that describes the system of
systems. So it's not just one solution that is going to replace Typhoon in the
twenty 40s.In order to provide the combat air capability we need in the UK to
fulfil our defence roles. So we're acknowledging with that that we're not
looking for just a platform, we're not looking for just one type of platform or
one type of solution in order to fill that capability gap.Within F Gas you've
got G Cap, the Global Combat Air Programme. Now that is a trilateral programme
with Italy in Japan. And the aim of that is to deliver the core platform. And
I'm going to break out an American sporting metaphor here and you're not going
to like it. You're going to wish it was rugby or cricket or something, but I'm
going with American football. So that core platform.Is a quarterback, and we
like to think of it as a quarterback because it's the platform that walks onto
the field knowing the plan. It understands what plans it has available to it.
It's no longer able to maintain the connection back to the coach on the
sidelines because you're too deep into the field.And the other players that are
there in that team, some of those will be expendable. They will not make it
through the play that we're executing.And that play will not go to plan
either.And so the quarterback needs to have the ability, the strategic
vision.And the reactions to be able to deal with what plays out when we when
the when when they start and then pick how it's going to then deliver that asks
to what remains on the field to look at was going and then decide how it
achieves the aim. Now it's survival enough to take a hit if needs be. So it's
no kind of fragile back row player.And also if needs be taken, scored a
touchdown itself. But the aim here is that is going to orchestrate many others,
many other parts that system assistance in the system you're talking about.
Yeah, that's the system system talking bout. So the G cap, think of that as the
organising centre of the system assistance that is F Cass and we're
building.Right now, we're right in the heart of the development of that with it
in Japan. Now, where Tempest and Team Tempest come from, those other parts, you
have to go back a little bit in history. And it's probably a good point for my
industry colleagues to chip in. So Team Tempest was announced in 2018, I think
it was.And it was put together seen that the case for companies, my company
Leonardo Rolls Royce BA systems, an MBA and the MOD to produce the technologies
to develop the aircraft which will replace Typhoon in the twenty 40s and
hopefully I imagine the aircraft will be called.Tempest when it comes to
service the RAF, so it's a working title.The 10:10 past, yes, yes. So Team
Tempest is the UK programme, G Cap is the trial out programme is Italy and
Japan. And when the core platform comes in the service, it I would imagine be
called templates. So I don't know, we will have to have knowledge about that.
Yeah, yeah, you have to be a naming, the naming competition of some kind. I've
got 5.Think of Team Tempest or think of sorry, let's pull back one. Think of F
Cass as like a connection network. So the aircraft is flying along will be able
to connect to space to other air assets.Two naval to land forces and be able to
integrate the effect of all of those forces together so that F cast Peace is
not just other air assets, but it's its ability to connect and utilise other
assets across all of the force network.
OK.So, yeah, it's it's, it's, it's a false G cap is the core. Yep, G
caps the core organising function within that system of systems that allows us
to maintain a capability that is not. And the key point here is when we
talk about replacing Typhoon were not like for like replacement iPhone. So it's
important to think about how the threat has changed.And Typhoon was envisioned,
designed for an F35 is envisaged and designed and delivered for Wengie CAP is
coming into service. So we're going to replace the roles, but we're not going
to do it in the same way Typhoons are muscle car yeah, is designed to achieve
its capability edge by accelerating faster, flying higher.Putting more energy into
its factors by having sensors which are powerful but you're not trying to hide
your over your thug beating at the door of the enemy. And the way you win with
Typhoon to take control of the air is you squeegee back the enemy so that you
can then get to the thing you're trying to.Have the effect on or maintain the
control of the air of the land or or the maritime domain. Jacob is going to
have to do that in a different way and it's going to have to integrate with F35
in a different way that Typhoon does. So we are replacing the roles of Typhoon.
We're not doing it in the same way at all. OK, Could you ever see G Cap?Are we
going to get the cap in this? We're going to get tested.Let's call the
checkout. OK, We go to the Yeah, I mean, yeah, I, I sound a little bit
confused. I'm sure there's one or two listeners that might have been a little
bit confused too. So let's yeah, hopefully get to the bottom of this.At.Rolling
back the clock 1015 years. Afghanistan, Iraq.Fast there would.Deliver show of
presence, show of force. You think G Cap is ever going to deliver those
effects?So and that's exactly why you have a mix. So
remember we're not planning for Jacob to be on its own as providing the combat
air capability. It's going to be paired. It's designed to be complementary with
F35. So what we're looking to do is breakdown the tasks and the roles and the
threats. We're going to have a future and say.What is F35 going to provide and
what does G cap need to provide and what does the system of systems that they
are within need to provide? So that show of force in in the twenty 40s
or 50s F 35 is 1/5 Gen aircraft that has stealth capability, but it's still got
performance.Around it and is designed for agility in a specific way. I mean
it's designed to land on a carrier. So it's got it's got a range of abilities
which are specific to it and so it will fit that role well. There's no reason
why Jacob couldn't do a show of force. But the question is would you want to
use is going to be a beyond visual range aircraft is that.What you're saying I
don't think, I don't think that's the way that we would characterise and spit.
It doesn't. I think the idea of defeating an enemy by turning harder, we have
to ask ourselves, that's necessarily the way you want Jacob to fight. So it may be able to defeat a threat without needing to turn
it all. And that's a really bold statement to make.Remember, because we made
that statement once before in the 60s with Phantom, where we said
manoeuvrability was no longer a thing and that missiles would be able to do the
job and radars will be able to do the job. And that turned out to be the wrong
assessment and we had to go through a whole cycle to get ourselves back to a
place where we understood how we were going to use.Kombouare So we're not
making any of these kind of statements likely there's an awful lot of analysis
that goes on behind it. But I wouldn't characterise the cap is only a long
range platform at all. I wouldn't characterise it as something that can't do
that kind of high speed or fast jet type role. It's just a question of would
you want to fight?Like that in the future and I think that that giving the
pie.All the operator, the option is what the cap is about, because if you if
you look at the F caste system, if the aircraft detects with superior Leonardo
sensors, obviously thank you if if the aircraft detects a threat build quite
right.The aircraft could choose to take that threat out using its own
capabilities. It might also be able to connect to a Type 45 destroyer 200 miles
away and task it to take that that threat out without revealing its location.
So there is there is a different way in which this capability is being thought
about.It's integrated with your other force elements, correct?
Yeah.
This is something that's really struck me about this programme that is
different than anything that's happened before, is that you're working
together, you're sharing. Tell me about that. How's that going?That Jones like
then I'll take that quickly at that's come from the Team Tempest aspect and
that's another aspect that you asked us to sort of define.Dave mentioned that
Team Tempest was stood up in 2018 and it was stood up by 5 partners. It was
stood up by the MOD and by MDA in Rolls Royce and Leonardo and BAE Systems, and
it was stood up to develop, identified develop and mature.Technologies to be
ready to execute a programme that we are now in visiting.And so that's a real
difference to what we did, I think in tornado and typhoon before, I wasn't
around at that point, but.We launched the aircraft Tornado, Typhoon and develop
technology in parallel to produce the aircraft. So whenever there was a hiccup
in the technology development path that had an impact on the schedule for the
aircraft.We've learned that lesson and so Team Tempest enabled us to start a
programme with which the government invested in that technology, but also the
companies invested in that technology has a complete different departure from
what we've done in previous generations, but we have both code invested in that
technology.To get it to a point where we are very confident around the
technological solutions that we can develop and deploy over the coming decade.
So a lot of work has gone into digital twins. So we have we performed lots of
experiments, lots of rig tests to validate digital models which give
us.Confidence that the technology works for the next phase.And there's other
ways in which you this programme is making us work together an earlier stage in
a different way. So requirements development.Can be quite transactional, even
confrontational activity in traditional programmes. What we've done with this
programme is that we are sat down with a trilateral partners on the MOD side.
So my opposite numbers from J Maude and from the Italian Air Force and with
industry.But it's all three nations, industries and we sit down together and we
are generating those requirements together so we can fast iterate them in a way
that avoids the throwing over the fence that the requirements to one side and
industry looking at them and trying to understand them, but also wondering
whether that we realised that this was.Schedule or cost driving, so to hold
this activity when it happens because of course it's all happening at a very
high classification. So it's all face to face.Now for the time being, and
you've got 200 and 5300 people, a mixture of nations and industry and MoD's
together in a room working together, the kind of threads of teams, we call them
threads. You might have 6-7 in the early days, it is only three. We're now up
to 1011 threads of activity happening at the same time.These large open plan
secure spaces, as we work through this activity to build the requirements and
develop the solutions to those requirements and understand how we're going to
bring that together and integrate it. It's a, it's a deeply impressive thing.
It makes me incredibly proud and also quite hopeful that we can achieve the
ambition of this programme because it is.Very, very ambitious and the
technologies that were working on this is highly specialised, cutting edge,
absolutely cutting edge technologies are companies already, specialised
companies and we have a vast amount of experience, meaning ever since they've
been aeroplanes, Rolls Royce have been putting engines in them. Ever since
they've been radars, we've put it been putting him onto aeroplanes, BA
systems.The forward would be making a place very long time. The Royal Air Force
have been flying aeroplanes very, very well for well over 100 years now. This
is very, very different the way we're doing this, this programme.It previously
built aeroplanes and we put stuff on them, we've hung kit on it and we sort of
made it work. You can't do that with a six generation aeroplane. Everything is
going to be designed into it right from the get go. The power, the power
position is doing an awful lot more than pushing air out the back to make the
aeroplane go forward.There's a huge draw out of power from the census that
we're making. And you can't just throw on tenor arrays onto this this platform.
We expect them to work and the crowd below. So, so all of that, we all have to
work very, very closely together. We could not do it alone. And especially now
we're working with our international partners. We trade with the international
partners as well. You know what?School from Italy and is bought from Japan as
well. Both of them in themselves proud aviation nations, manufacturing nations.
And if you look at people often ask me, it's an odd pairing isn't it? Or
grouping Japan, Italy in the UK. But let's break it down a little bit. We're
all F35 nations.We all like to manufacture our own capability that's quite
that's increasingly rare in the world now. There's a lot of fallen by the
wayside and we all operate a principle of a two fleet combat air mix.In that
we're always looking to, as one of our aircraft goes out of service to replace
it with another generation and leapfrog over. So we have that diversity within
that fleet mix. So that that basic construct actually means that the pairings
being pretty straightforward. And I came from a long background in Typhoon
where we had four partner nations.And I absolutely see when it, when it runs
well, partnership like that, like Typhoon or like the cap, when it runs well,
it is a powerful thing.We've talked about industry here at the prime level, but
tell me about the opportunities and development opportunities for UK SMEs,
small to medium enterprises, the smaller manufacturers that the primes could
not work without.Let's start with some facts first. So.The number of people
that are going to be employed to already employed by G Caps were already into
the thousands.And that will become 10s of thousands as we build out a full
scale and the trickle down effect of that is really significant. So I think
it's something like 95% of the investment and work is happening outside of
London and the Southeast that is coming from the programme right now. We've
already got billions of pounds of investment.Has gone into research and as
already mentioned earlier, that was matched by hundreds of millions of pounds
that came in from the original team Tempest industry Partners.And so that has
already seen a recovery in the demographic of our subject matter experts and
the small and medium industries because we've that investment as it's rolled
down has pulled from universities, it's pulled from research. And so a
workforce that had delivered the last generation of aircraft that was all
now.Approaching a certain stage in this demographic has been re energised by
this investment is coming in at the bottom. So we're prepping ourselves not
just to build the cap, but it benefits current programmes like Typhoon and it
also will mean that we have a demographic in place that can support subsequent
generations, 7th Gen, but also opportunities that spin off from the cap.Like
autonomous combat platforms and all the other technologies, civil sector as
well. So in Rolls Royce is a significant field across to the civil sector.
Yeah. And even even just outside of Rolls Royce. So Bill mentioned that the
enterprise has been working with with a lot of universities. I think the last
count we had.Something like 20-5 different university technology collaborations
that we have across the country in all four countries of the United Kingdom, so
you know, Northern Ireland and Scotland, Wales and England.We spend, I think
Rolls Royce, like the last count, Rolls Royces invested somewhere in the
region, about 17 or 18,000,000 lbs.Directly into those universities to support
that technology development. So the spill out is is pretty widespread.
And
I'll give you a good example that we've just advertised in fact, which is which
we call to Tempest. We've worked very closely with with an SME to develop
technologies where we've recycled.I titanium compressor blade from the RB199
engine that powered Tornado. We've actually atomised the titanium in that that
blade and reprinted it to be the nose cone of what we call our Orpheus
demonstrator engine, which is.A small low thrust ray thrust engine which is
also part of the technology infrastructure for F gas. Not G cap, but F gas.And
we've just done that. And we've just done that in very close collaboration with
an SMB partner, which highlights things like resilience in the supply chain. So
we've got a lot of these blades from scrap that that we can't make use of, but
if we can recycle them.That gives the UK's supply chain resilience that we didn't
previously have. There are there are thousands of really specialists SME small
companies in this country and we've always drawn on the expertise and is it
worth a company like I was like there another investing in in doing a certain
amount of work? No, because there are other companies we can use.And so
traditionally we've done that. Now we see that because because of the way the
technology is developing and other technology developing outside of the sort of
traditional defence market example from the domain that I'm working with
Leonardo, the census, the integrated sensors not connecting effects, we will be
generating vast amounts of data.From the sensors that we're putting onto this
platform far too much than anyone could deal with. So the artificial intelligence
industry, this is a marketplace for small start-ups and, you know, groups of
people coming out of university starting up, you know, this gives them an
opportunity to flex their muscles as it were, to exploit that emerging
technology now.That's just an example because that's going to be huge going
forward. Is is this linking into the defence industrial strategy from the
United Kingdom for that fundamentally, I mean it is that the so.The pillars of
our combat air strategy and then the aims of the F Cast programme, they all tie
exactly back into the defence Industrial Strategy is it's a really important
part. If we get it right, there's no conflict with that in my mind. So my whole
role is to deliver capability.And that is my purpose. But if I get this right,
then prosperity naturally flows with that because if I'm really looking at
capability in the round, then I want to ensure that I'm considering sovereignty
and also supply chains. Well, we've just talked about how if we get it right,
that reinforces itself.The partnership that we are achieving with G cap in
terms of the trilateral partnership, that's really important because that
strengthens that ensures security for the UK by making ties with other nations.
And so there's a there's there's an element to this that in every aspect if
we.Do this right, we will be increasing security for the UK in every way and
also increasing prosperity for the UK 'cause if we make a good product is going
to sell. And so you then bring yourself onto the principle of export and the
the platform is designed to be exportable. It's designed to be open to other
partners.So if you've got a good product that supplied them, it's my keepers
requirements, it will also be an enticing prospect for sales. It's a it's a
it's a great point because BAE Systems are what we turned the lead system
integrator on this programme along with image I along with they make sure
sorry, yes, along with them. Hi.Leonardo in Italy, but those lead system
integrators are working very closely together. BAE Systems looked at the impact
of this programme of G cap, not F gas, but G caps specifically on the UK and if
the funding were available to move the programme.Forward.They work very closely
with PW C, one of the one of the big four in London to understand the economics
of it. They've come back and concluded that this if the programme just went
ahead on a national basis, so excluding the export that Bill referred to.The
programme would be a net positive contribution to UK GDP of somewhere in the
region of about £37 billion.Now you overlay the export success that you see
we've had with Typhoon and that we hope to have with the cap.And its multiples
of that to the UK. So this, this first and foremost has to be a capability that
the RAF need. And first and foremost it's about securing the security of our
country.
But
there's no reason why this can't be a commercially beneficial deal for the
United Kingdom as well. Typhoon has been remarkable. 70% of of UK defence
exports over the last decade have come from combat air, primarily Hawk and
Typhoon. So but let me just.Sanity check something as I understand it's going
to be 10 years or so before we see Tempest brought into service, so isn't that
a long time to wait for a return on investment?So this is a bold kind of
comparison to make, but you know, JFK gave the Apollo programme 10 years to get
to the moon. The complexity of the technology that we're bringing together and
the product we're going to build, it is akin to that level of complexity is a
hugely.Challenging technical endeavour that requires all these different
disciplines to come together to roll out the end of it, something that is a
capability. And so 10 years is actually in development terms, that's pretty
racy. I am definitely feeling, I'm feeling the pressure.I now it's also a huge
privilege, but we're definitely we have set ourselves ambitious challenge. If
we if we make that mark, it will be hugely impressive and a testament to the
kind of engineering organisations from the LS eyes and all of the.The Team
Tempest Industries in the UK now I'm really pleased you brought up NASA because
the space programme, everyone thinks of aluminium foil, Velcro, some of those
everyday products that are spin outs from NASA. So what capabilities do you
believe?Going to be spun out of.G Cap.Before 10 years, within the next 10
years. Well, let's do, let's go back a little bit 1st and then look at how
that's already happening. We're already seeing that. So in Leonardo, Edinburgh
there just in the process of integrating is going to fly the ECRS Mark 2
multifunction array in the front of Typhoon.So that is it's not a radar, it's a
multi function array and that's going to extend the capability of Typhoon and
its relevance. So our 4th Gen platform flying in 1/5 Gen world, but that that
forced them platform 5th Gen world is enabled is going to be enabled by the
capabilities which.Going to be in the East restaurant too. And it's also going
to support and complement the F35 'cause that pairing together that Typhoon
thug with the F35 Assassin is the same pairing you see on the deck of the US
Navy carrier with a growler and an F35.But the the key point about that is that
not only do we have A next generation sensor being built in East restaurant
too, that's going to go into the front of the UK Typhoons, but it's also
reconstituted the workforce within Leonardo. So they've gone through the
process of designing and developing something.Right at the cutting edge when
genuinely the cutting edge.And then critically they're going through
manufacturing and they go taking into service and they're going through all the
in service lessons and spirals. So TDP is great, TGP, TGP technology
demonstrator programme. So they have been vital to keep being some of the
technologies and industries in the right place to be ready for this. But there
are a bit like a Mars bar.So starving, man. There are sugar rush, but they're
not broadband nutrients.What we've done with the first Mark 2 is you get that
broadband development, that workforce now is going to enable us to build the
sense that it's going to go into G cap.More quickly, more cheaply, with less
risk, with better outcomes. And so it's the people.That are the benefit. And So
what I'm going to tell you is that what is G Cap going to give us is going with
workforce, the most important thing we can get out of it. It was going to give
us an Air Force that is 6 general wear and has gone through the process of
bringing that aircraft into service and using it. And it's going to give us an
industry across all the different industries at the LSE.LSI, so the sub sub, sub
system integrator and all those, those small and medium enterprises, they're
all going to be reset for another generation. That is a huge legacy to
deliver.OK, that you've stillness of my sandwiches there Bill, but the thanks
for bringing it up easier smart too is obviously very important to my company.
And to answer the Typhoon force and it's a big step forward Typhoon what we're
going moving onto with G cap for the MFSA, the multirole RF system or radio
frequency system.Is the next generation again and that's a massive leap forward
in technology. But as importantly, the way we're making this Arrest 2 is
helping us make MRF's and the systems that are are going into into G Cap. But
the young guys and girls we've got now on or apprentice schemes under our grad
schemes up in Edinburgh and in Luton.Elsewhere as well, the guys and girls,
we're putting out a school in university now, I'm working on this programme.
They're going to be running this programme in a few years on G Cap. So it's
hugely important that they are immersed in that now and we are building up our
pool of talent and skills for the future. It's really a really, really
important sense. I was, I was thinking about that as you are both.Speaking that
our listeners from within the Royal Air Force that are new in their careers.You
know, and, and AS one at the moment, who's.They'll probably be a Sergeant or
chief text service in leading teams to service these aircraft when they come
in.The air cadets that are listening to this podcast, there we fly in Tempest.
Yeah,
that's right. Yeah. And.And so you'll be getting your arm chair talking about
it to various publications reflecting polyester book at some stage.There's
actually another one from Rolls Royce which is really interesting. 1 and I, I
picked this up when we were briefing the other services of the last couple of
days. I've been doing a series of briefings over the last two days. Rolls Royce
remaining in the in the military power plant industry that's not just important
to the Royal Air Force.Because of course the other service that use gas
turbines is the Royal Navy. So that what we're doing with gas turbines and
propulsion system on G cap is is going to ripple across not just the Air Force,
but into the other the other services as well and their technologies in their
cake as same is true in sensing and EW.Yeah, information data and also, so we
definitely see that that benefit Bill was Bill was mentioning TTP's, their
technology demonstrator programmes. We have a whole host of TPS which is
supporting the development of the power and propulsion system.Roughly 80% of
those TDP's.Have some spillover benefit to our civil sector, to our civil
aircraft sector, just give you one example of that. So we were all very
familiar with additive layer manufacturing, printing, 3D printing, that that
kind of thing. We're taking some of the technologies that are within that to
create geometries. Cooling geometry is in the engine.Which could not be
manufactured any other way that is setting the benchmark for cooling technology
that will be incorporated into the next generation of civil I'll or civil
aircraft engines, both single and twin aisle. So it's very real for us it's
about a continuing.The Continuum, and I think often in the UK, we tend to take
for granted that we have this gas turbine technology. It's a technology that a
lot of countries around the world are trying to develop. We take it for granted
because we invented it. It was here with the Frank Whittle right at the very
beginning, but it is a national asset.And it is really important that that
Rolls Royce make the most of taking the technology and using that in a
continuum to extend our competitive edge in the civil, civil area and the
business jet area as well. Yeah. So when I was thinking about this.Opportunity
to speak with you. One of the questions I had in my pocket was.Why are you
talking about Tempest today when it's years away before it's delivered? And
even to the point of, you know, shouldn't you just be talking about it when you
roll it out onto the runway for the first flight? But you're so ahead of the
game. I'm starting to get a picture of why you're doing that. But.This come to
Leonardo. Why, why why do you why is this input because you run a podcast.
Thank you.
Is
Future Horizons that talks about Tempest along with the rest of the team. Yeah.
Why did you do that? Why do we do the podcast? Why do the podcast? Why do you
talk about it? To get to get the message out there that this is an important
programme.It's important to the company, it's important to our company's
important to the nation, to the Royal Air Force, to our to our allies as well
on so many levels mean Bill, obviously the expert on the mercy requirements of
the motion capability, but for national value as well as the in that you know
we are creating resilience for the nation.Creating jobs and Lisa Diesel
specialist high paid jobs that we're doing. So the podcast is as as Mark
mentioned earlier, is keeping the programme sold, is making sure people understand
and can ask the questions why are we doing this or how do I get involved in
this? You know, let's say you're going to university. What do I study at
university? I'd like to get into that game.What, what course should I study,
which university should I go to? And it's about making it clear that this
programme is is at full Sprint now and people don't realise that we are already
flat out with thousands of people and those thousands of people are going to
grow to be 10s of thousands of people. It is a huge endeavour and.In the only
way we get to 2035 is by being at full Sprint now. And so you've gotta keep,
you've got to keep the people coming in from the universities, we've got to
keep the people coming into the Royal Air Force because they want to be involved.
And in this we've gotta feed this machine in order to deliver the output that
we're all aiming for.Otherwise, we leave a gap in our capability if we don't
make that mark, Japan, Italy in the UK have a gap in their capability. As
typhoon reaches the end of its life and it's exciting stuff. One of the circle.
I came today 'cause bills bills given me two analysis with Nastran quarterbacks
that I'm just shamelessly.But it but it is genuinely exciting. You know, this
is, this is the first time we've done this for 40 years.You know, I, it shows
my age 'cause I still look at Typhoon and think it's a modern futuristic
looking fighter. But it's been 40 years since we started doing Typhoon in the
same way that we're doing templates now. So the opportunity to come in at this
point and to influence the future trajectory.Of this whole programme is really
quite exciting and.The it's really quite interesting. So in Bristol I think
we've got somewhere close to 1000 people working on this programme. I think
it's about 3 1/2 thousand people working across the UK on this. We were getting
close to 1000 people working on the programme.Our average age has gone down by
a decade in the last three years. So we are, you know, the, the workforce that
we're seeing, the workforce that is delivering this programme is getting
younger and younger and that's quite exciting 'cause that's also quite
challenging as well in terms of, you know, that they're looking at us.To make
this a more sustainable programme as well and to think about that from the
outset of design, how we do things so.You know, we, we probably talk about how
this is going to feel with feeling the RF, but it's going to feel very
different in terms of his operation. You know, we were envisaging a world where
the data that comes off the aircraft enables sort of proactive management of
the aircraft to the point where you can start to envisage 3D printing at the
side of the aeroplane.Replace parts so you don't have to transport stuff that's
really good.
So
let's let's go down that road. What is the 15 year old who is going to be a
pilot when she's 25 years old flying this? What will they expect? What can they
expect that's different? OK, so let's start, let's turn on.To ask you the same
question, what can the engineer, what can the designer? Yeah.So.This aircraft
is going to approach replacing Typhoon in a different way.So we're talking
about the threat environment means that ranges become a really big thing for
all of us. And you see that that's recognised everywhere. This is no surprise.
So you look at the press around the American version of six Jens, so the next
generation air dominance, you look at what we see in there.Missions. In all
those cases, you can see range is becoming a factor. We're building an aircraft
that is going to have an awful lot of range, but at the
top of our list is the payload. Payload is what we're all about. In fact,
impure capability terms, I don't care how I get it there. It could be in the
back of an A400 from a submarine.From space, it just so happens that our
analysis tells us the best way to get that payload there right now is in a fast
jet. But the payload now, you'd expect weapons to be in there, so that's
obvious. And boy, we have weapons, so we're talking.Roughly double NF35A's
worth of payload. That's
pretty significant.But.Now we're also talking about the sensors. The sensors
are as important everywhere G Cap goes. It carves a picture of the world
to support other military capabilities to be able to exploit that and use
that.And so getting the sensors forward is as important as getting the weapons
forward. And those sensors also mean that when we go deep into enemy territory
and we may not be able to reach back to anyone else for help, there's no
connection with the seven in the future.But we still can complete what we call
the kill chain. So the ability to find and fix something, to identify it, to
engage it, and then work out how that engagement went.We can still do that
within platform or within our formation.And in the first bit of that payload,
and this is a real new bed. This is the bit that we don't talk about very we
wouldn't talk about when I joined the Air Force is we're going to take the
compute forward. I'm going to take the server rack forward 'cause if you want
low cost autonomous systems, we will know from turning your iPhone on. Yeah,
that how much how much data you pull to use ChatGPT.Well, where's that server
going to be if you're deep in enemy territory? So if you want low cost
autonomous systems, they need a server to back them up, and they need sensors
to back them up to make them capable.So that quarterback has a really important
role now 'cause you're carrying the senses and the servers to be unable to
enable that system of systems that's forward in that contested area. So that's
right, the top I payload. But to get there, we've gotta have range now.But an
F15, he's got range.So we also need survivability, which is the third corner of
the triangle and the survivability in an **** Telfer
signature allows us to penetrate that airspace in a way that an F15 Cotton 15
or a Typhoon, the thug platforms, they have to squeeze you back the threat,
whereas we can slide through it.So.Even if we have to leave the tanker a long
way behind.The range we're talking about, we're talking really extreme range
kind of maybe getting across the Atlantic to America on internal fuel, whereas
a Typhoon is what, 3 or 4 plugs to get across with a payload, with the senses,
with the compute.But he was doing a survivable way that triangle those three
corners.
That's
the platform we're building. A platform's got a huge amount of capability.Now
what you might say is what for one operator?Well, you think about if you wanted
to go abroad in the 90's, the amount of planning it took to get the ticket and
get to the airport. Getting the AA map out and working out which route you're
going to take. Having no idea where the traffic is going to get into the
airport, not knowing where you going. Currency changing at the other end,
you've got no idea how the train system works. I can tell you going to Japan.If
you don't speak Japanese, do you need a smartphone to back that up with a
smartphone today, not only am I doing all those things, probably with less than
a days planning, maybe even on the day, but I'm having a meeting while I'm on
the way to the airport as well and in the airport going through it and doing
work while I'm on the plane and I'm coming out the other side.Like some kind of
Jason Bourne moving through the airport because your smartphones planned it out
or for you. I do a huge amount more with less effort in a smaller space of
time. And it is not unreasonable to say that we can do the same thing with the
systems innogy cap. We can enable that 25 year old girl you talked about who's
going to be the operator.So that they will be managing a huge amount of tasks
coming in for a very large number of assets. But it's not going to require
superhuman, it's just going to require normal people that we can train in a
normal amount of time.Who are willing to commit themselves to becoming a
specialist. It's totally reasonable we're going to pilot or a systems
analyst.And it is the pilot going to be sat in a container somewhere. So flying
remotely definitely won't be remote. And I'll explain that one second, but with
apologies to my Italian opposite number, 'cause he will not thank me for this.
I think we're talking about a single seat wizard now, single seat pilot. And I
say that as a pilot.Right. OK. That's probably going to immediately like, well,
I guess about navigator, I'm going to quote you on that building.I'm going to
get some hate mail from that one, but there's a lot of love in this room right
now.So coming back to the inner cabin.I just talked about how deep this
aircraft going to penetrate.So the idea of us being able to.Guarantee a
connection back to outside, not reasonable. What I can guarantee is a
connection back to the G cap that core platform. That's why I call it the
quarterback. So will be able to maintain, we have to maintain a local
network.In fact, I'm going to go back another step again. How do we fight in as
the allies in the West? Well, we know probably we're going to be numbered.
Yeah.And for a long time we had a technology, we built a technological edge.And
the technological edge allowed us to offset mass, so kwality offset in
quantity.If that.Quality edge is eroded.Our next step is that we is a tempo is
the speed with which we can go round our loop.And so in order for us to be
greater than the sum of our parts, and that's a phrase we hold.At the centre of
this F35 is a great example of this. At 35 minutes to formation is greater than
the sum of its parts G cap. But in some ways that 35 formation is a little bit
selfish with the way it does that.Which ICAP six generation?We're heading for
something that is greater than his parts, but that, but that benefit is shared
across the domains. So in maritime with land, with space and with the other air
assets. So it's our ability to connect which is going to be fundamental to our
success and when we're outside of the threat environment will be connected in a
very broad.Low latency, high speed, high bandwidth way and as we go in will
narrow that down and manage that for a survivability. But
the key point is we're always in part connected, but you need, you can't
guarantee always that connection back, which is why right now for the time
being we need a human in that quarterback position.We're prepared though
for the time when artificial general intelligence does catch up. At the moment,
large language models, I mean they just stochastic parrot, yeah, there are
advanced auto complete. Even the reasoning models have got limitations and they
draw an awful lot of service space. I can't fit that even begin to fit that in
a platform. So.Yeah. But I'm going to ask question now, but you've sort of
answered it a little bit, but just get out there faster versus Drone 11 faster
unit.You could pay for 10,000 drones, yeah. And so, but then you've got to ask
yourself, those drones have got to be able to penetrate the threat environment
to a certain extent. If you're willing to lose a load of them, not so much, but
they've certainly got to fly a long way. You probably don't want it to take 15
hours. So you wanted to bit quicker, but the time
you've made your long range.High speed.Somewhat stealthy or completely
expendable drone, you probably end up in a cost point, which isn't necessarily
where to expect. And so there's a balance. There's a balance to this in
all of it. If you want it to be low cost, you really want the sensors to be
somewhere else, maybe innogy cab if you want that computer be somewhere else.
So they're smart and they're not dumb.You're going to
need a server rack in the right place where you can connect to it without
getting them killed 'cause talking too loud can get you killed in a modern
threat environment. So you need a server right there. Maybe that's the cap as
well. So there is a there is absolutely a place for saturation through
autonomous and expendable.Systems,
that's
definitely one of our 3S is so we got stealth signature.Because depression is
rest Mark to the growler. We got saturation. You do that. We've done that for
years with weapons already, but drones or the new form of saturation, put those
three things together and you've got yourself a really nice mix. But if you
pick anyone antibiotic and just overuse there, what you breed antibiotic
resistance you get yourself.Wax by something that's evolved to deal with you.
So you need to have a spread. The classic 1 + 1 = 3. Yeah, OK alright, so we
talked about what it will be like potentially for the future pilot operator
wizard.What about the future engineer that will be servicing keeping this
aircraft in the air?I think it's going to be the young guys and girls now who
are, you know, joining the service or or at school who are looking to do to
pursue a career in the Royal Air Force.We're going to be servicing these
aeroplanes very, very differently, not just day-to-day and it marked touched on
earlier that the 3D printing of self parts next the aircraft that's very
different also we're never going to finish developing this aeroplane really
we're going to continually upgrade, will be spirally upgrading certainly in the
areas that my company are dealing with.With the sensors and the self
protection.All potential adversaries will be scaling up up the threat
significantly, continually, very, very quickly and we know that they are very
good at that. We have to be better than them. So we need to spiral of our
capability and the way we can defend ourselves and the effect is we're going to
employ as well.So that will be a continual process of continually spiralling
up, continue improving, continue developing, staying ahead of the game, ahead
of the adversary and of future aviators are going to have to be on top of this
game as well, not just, you know, with the physical nuts and bolts of
maintaining an aeroplane.But making sure all the systems are ahead of the game
as well. So that will be very, very different for the youngsters who are going
to work on this aeroplane in the future. OK, thank you. And that, I think goes
across the Royal Air Force.And our our competitors in Japan necessarily, but it
goes through the same for industry as well. And having that resilience in industry
and utilising the digital backbone in order to be faster so that we can support
the availability of the G cap asset in service is.In itself part of the
deterrent effect, you know, we, we don't want to fight wars, but this this is
about conventional deterrence and G cap is all about conventional deterrence so
that our adversaries know that we can hurt them. Being able to support that,
having the resilience and the strength in depth in industry.To do that.Is part
of the deterrent effect. So the future engineer in the Royal Air Force and the
future engineer in industry will be working in lockstep.And it's a, it's a
really interesting point 'cause what I talked about with that triangle, those
three things, that's one mission.
Of
course, you went to war in Ukraine's turn as this in a way that we should never
forget.Is the ability to go day after day, repeat mission after mission, week
after week, month after month. And so with this platform, we're going to make
sure that in striving for that capability that we need, that we want for the
operator, that we make sure we we make an aircraft that can be maintained and
supported.And we're going to have to come up with new ways of doing that
because we're bringing technical challenges to that. Some of the systems we
need, all the technologies we need, all the solutions we come up with, they're
going to present challenges to that maintainability and supportability. And it
is absolutely vital that this platform has a small logistics tail, but it has
the agility.To play the Shell game that will probably be needed in war. To move
airfield to airfield, to use whatever fuel we find when we get there.To take
whatever weapon we find in the stockpile, but we're going to engineers who
equally able to go with that and enable us to turn that aircraft around in that
timescale 'cause if we can't do that, then one mission isn't enough. It's got
to be able to go again and again. That's that's a, that's as much of an ask.As
any of the technical or operator challenges that we've discussed earlier on,
and I have an opposite number within the team who is a complete mirror, here's
a mirror team for our clients and concepting to ensure that we start thinking
about that now, not later. It's not an afterthought. So something I didn't
mention and I think it's a really important point.When I started in tie in
Typhoon, although requires managers were fast jet.Pilots.By the time we left
Typhoon, that was no longer the case. We had our first engineer, RM, and they
were a huge success in terms of our ability to develop that aircraft. The team
I have now within G Cap, there's only three out of 25 who?Who are pilots?We've
got people from the Warrington force, we've got an intelligence
officers.Police, security proof, security engineers that we've got a Space
Force, we've got a mixture of people and that diversity of thought.Means that
we don't just approach this platform as a fast yet. But I want to leave you
with the idea is G cap is more than just a fast jet.And it's more than just a
multirole platform as well. It's going to be a simultaneous role that it's
going to have to do different jobs at the same time in the same mission. So if
you're building something that's more than just a fast, you need more than just
fast jet pilots to develop it and design it and build it. You need a mixture of
skill sets, withdrawing from the whole Air Force.So I suppose one of the
messages out of this is if you think you're interested, it doesn't matter what
branch or treasure in.This probably a slot for you within within F cousin
Jacob.
OK,
Thank you. Now just to draw a close to this.Our listener when they think this
is interesting stuff, whether they want to follow a career in the Royal Air
Force or follow a career Rolls Royce Leonardo.BAE Systems, NBDY.Or academia?
Where should they look For more information about?Tempest G Cap.Well, I think
all of all, all of our organisations, including the RAF have got dedicated.G
cap F Cass websites there are great gateway into not only what we are currently
doing, but a gateway into finding people to talk to about about developing
careers. Were also very active in the university networks as well.Highlighting
what we do and providing career pathways. We have to compete, we have to
compete with with a low competing. But it's come across that you all sit on the
same side of the table. I don't mean competing between us, I mean competing
with HS2, competing with.Different industries also most of the automotive
industry, but I think we we are unique in talkin doing something truly
generational and build talked about it earlier. I love the Apollo analogy.We're
doing something very special. We are really pushing the envelope in in a way
that other industries I don't think can either envisage. And we were attracting
some of the brightest minds coming out of university as a result and I think
that's something we want to encourage and develop and continue if you want to
see.The model of Tempest, where can you see that? Well, a great a great
opportunity is react. So the Royal International Air Tattoo, obviously if you're
a nuclear already there, there's opportunity to go along with that but anyone
can go along to react and there there's all kinds of stands and.Opportunities
to engage with both the industries and the Royal Air Force in the different
zones, but there's also STEM linkages there as well. So there's loads of
different routes to get into React and that React. You'll find all of the
people you've here heard speaking today, but also all the other companies
involved in Team Tempest represented with.Loads of interesting things, loads of
information available and fun activities to kind of make this a bit of a richer
picture. The other opportunities, the national aerospace camp which happens at
Sawston and that's another great opportunity to to understand where the Air
Force is going in the technologies which are going to be building that future
efforts.That sounds brilliant.It's a huge privilege. You get one go at this.
Yeah, in a career.If you're lucky, so I came in at the back of typhoon was
already cost when I came into Typhoon. And so essentially you're just trying to
fix the things you were given in that regard. And that was very satisfying. And
there within it you can make knew stuff like you're smart too, but ultimately
you're still working within the constraints to genuinely have the blank
sheet.Paper is a huge responsibility, but a massive privilege is you get one go
at this in a career normally and so.Do you still present at Shrivenham? I do,
yes. Yes. So we first met, I was on a course and you were talking about future
capability.What sort of feedback you get in from junior officer cohort that
attention 7:00 AM for their continuing further development?In in terms of when
we talk about this, yes, yeah, I think I think the number of people I've had
have have said look, can I be part of this? That's been really interesting
because I'm not going to kid anyone is pretty full on there. It is intense,
but.It's rewarding and so I think the generation I brief today at
Shrivenham.They are really interesting in terms of their perspective is much
more than I think I was when I went through.And so they are also much more
engaged in terms of understanding what value and influence they can have. And I
think the picture of makers that genuinely within here in a way that probably
very few other jobs have. You have an opportunity in in this programme.To have
a really significant and long term.Influence, and I think that's that for me is
a feedback which I see for the junior officers having my team today, that seems
to be the thing which motivates them the most.OK, I'm going to give the final
word to you, Dave.The reason being is that you you have a very long history in
the Royal Air Force. You was at 1985. This is I've spent 22 years in the Air
Force, 22 years in their stores on there.Stuff.Haha.You're a backseat driver? I
was. I was a Tornado GR1NGO4 navigator. Yeah. OK. So you've seen not sure
anything like pilots, I feel was refer to the back seat drivers.Actually, maybe
they would, Bill. Yeah. OK. So you've seen a tremendous change in technology
over the years. Do you want to sum up for us today?But I mean, yes, what would
I, I, I flew mainly the Tornado GR one, then the GL4, which I thought was
pretty technically advanced aeroplane at the time. And then you know, that's gone
out of service. Typhoon, I still think it was a new aeroplane 'cause it was
coming his services as I, as I was leaving.I've not been nearly 18 years in the
defence industry. I'm immensely proud at this, at this stage of my career. I'm
going to retire in a couple of years to be involved and have the previously
involved in a programme like this and.This is such a step forward, both for the
Royal Air Force, which I'm still obviously very, very proud, and I want to make
sure that it gets the the kit that the aviators deserve.But also for our nation
as well and for our, our eyes, it's a huge boost to the economy to build up our
intellectual property or resilience. So it's, it's a massive step, step in the
right direction, I think. And we and we need to keep the momentum going.But
yes, hugely proud to be involved in it and I'm loving some of the analogies
that bills come up with are going to use them as well. And the the iPhone one,
I'm going to use that at yeah, they're all licenced. It's going to cost you, OK.Well,
Dave Morris marked Ivy Group. Captain Bill, thank you for being on INSIDE Air.
Thanks for joining us. Thank you.I am Corporal Victoria Andrews with reheat for
inside air and or EF River joined the Oreos Premier Signals intelligence
aircraft has been deployed on a reconnaissance mission over the Black Sea,
monitoring Russian naval activity as well as the movement of air defence
systems and military communications along occupied territories in Crimea.And
Southern Ukraine Authority was part of the UK's ongoing efforts to provide
intelligence support to Ukraine and NATO allies.Personnel from 51 Squadron
Orient Regiment have deployed to Norway's Arctic Circle to continue the
development of the Combat Readiness Forces Arctic Warfare capability. Exercise
Nordic Cheetah and Exercise Joint Viking saw 10,000 troops from 7 nations
including Canada, Finland, Germany, the Netherlands and the USA.Exercise
alongside each other.Operating in temperatures as low as -15°C, this quadrant
trained in essential cold weather survival techniques including shelter
construction, fire starting and ice breaking drills. This deployment
underscores the Ori F Regiment's commitment to developing Arctic expertise.
Next, an all female.A400M Atlas crew from or EF Brize Norton have taken part in
a historic flypast alongside a Prefect T1 and Eurofighter Typhoon. The flypast
marked the unveiling of the Women in War exhibition at the Memorial Spire and
John Paddy Hemingway, the last surviving pilot of the Battle of Britain.Has
passed away at the age of 105. He played a crucial role defending the United
Kingdom against Nazi oppression during the summer of 1940. On July 1st, 1941,
he was awarded the Distinguished Flying Cross, and in September of that year he
was mentioned in despatches.That's reheat an insider. Thanks, Victoria. And now
it's time to find out who's under the hat with Ben. I'm a S1 Ben Russell, and
this is under that, where we get to know an aviator in less than a minute.Name
you're known by black Sergeant Crystal Brown. What's your profession? But
people specialists and I'm based at HQ Air Command. What's the best thing about
your job? The variety. So it's never ever the same from day-to-day today. And
the fact that I get to assist with policy that affects the people specialist there.Hardest
part of your job? In my role I work from home which is a necessity because of
my family circumstance, but I really miss being in an office with people day
today. That's just me personally. Best location you served? Probably are active
role to so I did a tour there when I was.An it was three years as a PA, which I
absolutely loved, and it was in Gibraltar. What bit of luxury kit you never
diploid with? That comes a bit sad. But I would never deploy without my phone
because my phone is the way that I can contact my family, so my husband and my
children. And what's your proudest moment in the area? I'm really lucky.But I
think whilst I didn't recognise it at the time, I did a tour in Afghanistan
where I acted as the casualty and compassionate stance. Go for the Task Force
Helmand out there.The work that I did there and helped basically when people
were in the worst circumstances is probably my proudest moment. That makes
sense. Thank you, Flight Sergeant Brown, for being the latest aviator to take part
in Under the Hat.So that's it for another episode of Inside Air. Please do us a
favour, give us a review, subscribe via your favourite podcast app and join us
again soon.
